Creative ways to get patient care experience?

CarlaC · Post by **CarlaC** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:46 am

I was thinking that it might be cool to start a list of creative ways to get patient contact time. There are so many people who recommend EMT/Paramedic, CNA, RN/LVN, etc. But it seems like there must be other ways to get patient time. Some I had:
1) home health aid
2) phlebotomy
3) radiology technician
4) intakes in homeless shelters (taking vitals, interviewing, assessing hygiene)
5) volunteering in a NICU (neonatal intensive care unit - holding and caring for newborns, talking with families, etc)
6) mental health counselor (psych ER, inpatient psych) I've heard there are bachelor's level people who do this
7) dental assistant

medical assistant in doctor's office (the MAs at my doctor were mostly trained on the job, and are not RNs.
9) hospice volunteer

I think for a lot of these, though you wouldn't be hired as a health care worker (homeless shelter worker, for example), you could pretty easily make the argument that you work with patients - helping them clean themselves, get fed, monitor their level of functioning (diet, behavior, etc.), and interviewing. These are medical skills, as I see it.

Post by **PaulK** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:28 pm

Those are great suggestions, Carla! A point to keep in mind when you decide which types of patient work to pursue is what kind of patient contact experience it will give you with patients. For example, working for a coroner\'s office will get you working with patients, but not in a way that will be so helpful - I guess it could help with anatomy. I think the best types of patient care experience are those that get you interacting with patients one on one. Work as a dietition, for example, will have you interviewing patients and assessing their diet, exercise, and making recommendations. This seems better suited to PA-type patient care experience than say, working as pharmacy assistant, where you do less one on one interaction. That said, I think the way you describe your experience makes a big difference. You need to describe specific things you do with patients. Much of my patient care experience was as crisis worker at a psychiatric ER. I didn\'t take any vitals or do (much) medical stuff, but I did a lot of interviewing and decision making about patients. That seemed to mean a lot to my interview panel for PA school. Thanks for your ideas. Let\'s keep this thread going with more good patient care experience ideas!

afarmboy · Post by **afarmboy** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:03 am

Another thing to keep in mind is what quality and quantity of experience your target schools want. I\'ve heard phlebotomy mentioned at one school, and dental assisting listed at another, as not acceptable experience. These are schools that I am interested in so I am tailoring my experience to what will work.
Some schools list a \"recommended\" number of HCE hours, whereas one of my target schools claims that the app will be considered incomplete if submitted with less than the \"required\" HCE hours. It might not seem reasonable to us, but until we\'re making the rules...

hiker80 · Post by **hiker80** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:25 pm

I think afarmboy is right. But I wonder about experience that isn\'t ever listed. For instance I was a Wilderness First Responder for years working on 30 day Wilderness Education courses. It was consent patient care, with the occasional emergency evac. I guess the only way to find out is by contacting each school that I\'m thinking about applying to. But I wonder if there is a way of counting this experience even if it isn\'t what the schools want...

Post by **PaulK** » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:02 pm

I think it\'s also a good idea to sign up for an account at caspaonline.org when you start even if you don\'t apply at that point) so you can see the categories of experience and how they describe them on the application.

charlemagnedogue · Post by **charlemagnedogue** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:34 am

Patient care experience has been the biggest source of stress for me in the whole pre-PA process. I\'m a career changer, so I don\'t already work in the medical field, and I keep hearing from PA programs that x or y type of experience doesn\'t count for their program. The place I\'d really like to go requires 2,000 hours of full-time experience. Eep! I\'ll have to check out some of the other options CarlaC posted...

GatorPA9289 · Post by **GatorPA9289** » Thu Apr 07, 2011 2:38 pm

I know its probably one of the most common routes to get PCE, but I got my CNA license extremely quickly (1 week class). But to add an extra dimension to my certification I also became First-Responder certified which qualified me to work as a Trauma Tech in my hospital. Its allowed me to work with and care for a much broader range of patients--everything from chest pain, to appendicitis, to car crashes and gunshots!

SarahG · Post by **SarahG** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:34 pm

I haven\'t heard of a program that denies phlebotomy- I was even told by an interviewer she figured phlebotomy people were great - we go into rooms, physically injure the patient, and then go about our day. :-)

Some schools are VERY firm on the HCE - it is a way to divide candidates and the ones that require it really do reject candidates without the hours. There are THOUSANDS of applications for almost every school so most places have to figure out how to divide. I think HCE is a great way because it means people demonstrating they know what a patient really involves- it is nice if someone can memorize and recite thousands of bits of information but if the sight of patients being ill stumbles them, the time educating is wasted.

Happy hunting for your hours!

p_macloed · Post by **p_macloed** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 2:57 pm

Hi. I\'d like to share my story - and end it with a few questions. Thanks in advance for your help.

Hi. I have my EMT-B, though I haven\'t taken the NR exam. I currently work 4 days/week (in an established career - cut back to 4 days from 5 when I started back to school); have been volunteering in an ER for 1.5+ years; and am taking pre-req\'s for PA school.

I have also started the process of trying to figure out how to get HCE. I really don\'t think I want to be an EMT in an ER. I\'m now looking at CNA programs, with an eye on getting a job in a hospital. I\'ll admit the shifts (length and nights) don\'t excite me, but I think the work would suit me better than EMT-B. What I think would be best for me is a dr\'s office, but I don\'t have time (am an \'older\' student) to get the MA (and I\'m looking for options as a CNA in a med practice).

Regardless, I\'d start working part-time (while keeping my current job) then transition to full-time (to really crank up the HCE hours).

Some questions:
- Does this plan sound good? Please share thoughts, advice, comments.
- Do dr\'s offices hire CNA\'s? Any \'special\' ways to find those positions?
- When I transition to a full-time healthcare job (and I\'d be doing so in order to increase the number of schools to which I can apply (more HCE)), how do I handle the big pay cut I\'ll be facing? (I would still be taking pre-req\'s, too.) Since I am older, I want to try to move this process along (pre-req\'s, applying, hopefully getting in) as quickly as I can.

Thank you.

Post by **PaulK** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:23 am

I think it depends on the schools to which you are applying (at least somewhat). Are they big on primary care, like Davis, or certain specialties? If their focus is on primary care or something like it (internal medicine, pediatrics, geriatrics, etc), working in a doctor\'s office is ideal. And I don\'t think a CNA would help you much more than what you already have. A lot of primary care clinics train their MAs on the job. Some of them end up getting their RN while working at the clinic, and some don\'t. Sounds like you have enough medical experience and interest to just apply to doctors offices and clinics - you\'re probably hirable as-is. Heck, many MAs have no long-term interest in medicine - it\'s just a job. In that sense, I\'d hire you over them anyday. As for pay, I don\'t know what you make now, what kind of area you\'re in, etc. Starting pay isn\'t great, but it\'s a great source of HCE. As previously discussed in this thread, CNA in a nursing home or board and care would probably not be advisable. It\'s just not the same kind of medical experience as a clinic. You might ask a few of the docs in your ER if they know anyone who needs help... USE THOSE CONNECTIONS!

p_macloed · Post by **p_macloed** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:39 pm

Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions. I will definitely talk to the doctors at the ER, and I found a hospital that will hire people with EMT class for CNA jobs - applying tomorrow for several openings there. Thanks again for the support!

Akita · Post by **Akita** » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:36 pm

I didn\'t want to start a new thread when this seems so close to what I\'m wondering.

I am about to finish my bachelor\'s degree and I have a certificate in massage therapy. I need to complete all prereqs before I can even think about applying to PA programs (also considering PT). Since I have the desire to do one of two careers, it would be nice to become a physical therapy tech/aide. This would obviously fill my work experience as far as becoming a PT, but would this count towards the paid work experience that PA schools are looking for? I doubt it, but would massage (intake forms, one on one sessions, bedside manner skills, as well as home plans) therapy count at all towards these hours, even as \"alternative\" paid experience.

I just don\'t see how it would be wise for me to complete any other certificate programs without a lot of debt and too much schooling. I know it doesn\'t take long to become a CNA, but I would like to avoid that if I can.

Post by **PaulK** » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:01 pm

Think of it this way: for physician assistant school, anything counts if you can make a good argument for it. By this I mean that some schools will count certain things you have counted on your CASPA, and others will disregard the exact same experience. If it\'s even obliquely related to medicine, I encourage you (my opinion here, of course) to list it. If they don\'t want to count it, that\'s up to them.

If you\'re trying to decide which type of work to pursue for the benefit of your application, choose the most directly medically-related kind that you can.

PT is better than massage, since it deals directly with musculoskeletal anatomy, evaluation, and treatment (\"physical therapy and sports medicine\"). Massage relates to medicine too, but it\'s not something that most doctors recommend much as a treatment because the research on its effectiveness for medical purposes is mixed (though it\'s great for mental health and stress relief). EMT is a good way to work for an ambulance service, large entertainment venue, or as an ER tech in a hospital - one semester at a JC and you are good to go. I recommend it over CNA. You might also consider working/volunteering at a medical clinic or ER if possible. Most medical assistants in doctors\' offices (the people who bring you to a room, take vitals, give injections, etc.) are often trained on the job. Do you have a mentor? They can often be great help with finding jobs that might not otherwise be listed.

Hope this helps.... Paul

SWebster2013 · Post by **SWebster2013** » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:16 pm

I echo Paul\'s suggestions. I\'m a first year PA student. The school that I go to was very direct in what they do and do not accept. Not only that, they \"tier\" patient experience. I\'m lucky.... before I was a PA student, I was a full-time career paramedic (of 6 years) with the fire department. At my school, paramedics are in the top tier along with foreign medical graduates, physical therapists, and nurses. Phlebotomists, Vet techs, and scribes were in the bottom tier. My current class consists of no one from the bottom tier.

Here are my suggestions.....
Do the research. See what \"patient contact\" your prospective schools value.
Do what interests you. While you\'re exploring area\'s that interest you, you may find that your true passion is NOT PA school.

Remember this one point.......
Previous patient contact experience DOES NOT correlate to how well you\'ll do once you\'re in school or how well you\'ll do on your PANCE. HOWEVER, it does correlate to how easy of a student you will be to teach.

Good luck!

gamechanger77 · Post by **gamechanger77** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:03 am

As an older student and a career changer, the HCEs have been a pain as well. Mainly cause I started volunteering as a Nurse Station volunteer as soon as I decided to make the change to PA and for this I worked right along the nurses and helped them take careof patients, I assisted patients which their walks and exercise regimens, was there for education and consultations, checked in on patients and reported back any status updates to the nurses, held and cared for newborns (LD unit) and most schools I talked to won\'t accept this. I became an EMT and love it but I can only do part time right now financially. Have applied to ER tech positions and havent gotten anything back cause i am a new EMT. Looking for full time now so I can get those hours. Any advice?

Post by **PaulK** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:59 pm

Don\'t be deterred. Apply anyway. Rather than focusing on the title, focus on what you did with patients, particularly any types of treatments you did, or ways you might have assessed their status (I\'m sure you helped identify patients who weren\'t doing well, or when there was a fall risk, med noncompliance, or something like that. If you worked with the nurses, then you got HCE. Write a great essay that shows how much you have done. They may sing a different tune, and if they don\'t: their loss.

draquela · Post by **draquela** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:27 am

pkubin, you have posted some great insight! What you wrote made me see my job in a different light and how it actually can look good for PA school. I\'m a recruiter for Clinical Research, so I talk to patients about their med hx and medications and assess which investigational drug/trial would fit them, similar to how PA assess which medication/disease they diagnose. Right? I did this route b/c I have my B.S. and didn\'t want to go through more schooling to be an EMT, nurse, medical assisting, etc.

I wanted to actually get further \"direct patient contact\" since I\'m usually just on the phone all day, and you said MA\'s at doctor\'s offices are usually trained on the job? Well when I look at Craigslist, there\'s a lot of positions posted but they\'re all MA certification and \"ability to administer injections\" required

any suggestions? also on advice for community service and professional affiliations to make an application stand out?

draquela · Post by **draquela** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:29 am

and thanks so much in advance! your responses and this post has been extremely helpful

Ana · Post by **Ana** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:55 am

What do you guys think about being a nanny as health care experience?
I am a CNA for almost two years now, but before that I worked as a nanny for a long time. I had to bathe, feed, dress, potty train, and teach kids in so many ways that I really thought that this is one of the reasons why I want to take care of people as a profession. I had to gain the trust of the kids, their parents, and their close relatives as I sometimes spent days and overnights there without supervision.
It was important, pleasant and had great significance for me, but I do not want to look silly bringing this up if this is not even considered direct patient care.

mgholm · Post by **mgholm** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:45 pm

I am a career changer with no HCE. I took a CNA class and believe me I\'m convinced I don\'t want to be a CNA in a nursing home or with home health, which is the experience they don\'t value so much anyways. However, I am going to volunteer at the county health department. They operate a full clinic, diagnosing and treating illness, ob/gyn, immunizations, pharmacy, lab, do county health interventions, and dental. The number of hours you can volunteer is limited by your desire, so I\'m hoping to rack up some HCE hours. Also, I will be working with Drs, RNs, CNAs, not sure if PAs but I hope so, and an ARNP, so I get exposure to all the components of the healthcare team. I\'ll prep patients, interview them/take history, take vitals, etc. I hope it\'s as great as I\'ve pictured it in my mind, I go to orientation in 3 weeks. Just thought I\'d pass it along and I\'ll let you know how it goes.